"Pro-Life" Christians and Why I HATE Them
You heard me.
Hate’s a big word, but hey, I’m a big girl.
I reserve the word hate, or at least try to. Generally I don’t hate a group, but this is one group that just has it coming. This refers to Christians who follow the Bible, not their own laws. They don’t count for this post.
Anti-Abortion Christians are not only hypocritical, they are outright cruel.
Why?
The Bible talks about how God himself murdered babies and possibly many fetuses. When he killed the children in Egypt, he murdered infinitely innocent children. When he It’s also a commonly held belief among Christians that when babies or fetuses die, they go to Heaven.
So why is it okay for God to kill thousands of babies, but one woman can’t make the same choice?
Not only that, considering that according to most if not all Christians, those fetuses would be going straight to heaven once aborted (or they would just be reincarnated), there is not only no good reason to oppose abortion, it’s also cruel.
Why would Christians want to deny someone the chance to go straight to Heaven?
Why are those who can’t take care of a child and chose to abort the fetus evil and sinful, but God wasn’t for killing thousands? What do they care, their own God does it. For example:
1 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these miraculous signs of mine among them 2 that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the LORD.”
25 But Moses said, “You must allow us to have sacrifices and burnt offerings to present to the LORD our God. 26 Our livestock too must go with us; not a hoof is to be left behind. We have to use some of them in worshiping the LORD our God, and until we get there we will not know what we are to use to worship the LORD.”
27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he was not willing to let them go. 28 Pharaoh said to Moses, “Get out of my sight! Make sure you do not appear before me again! The day you see my face you will die.”
4 So Moses said, “This is what the LORD says: ‘About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. 5 Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. 6 There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again. 7 But among the Israelites not a dog will bark at any man or animal.’ Then you will know that the LORD makes a distinction between Egypt and Israel. 8 All these officials of yours will come to me, bowing down before me and saying, ‘Go, you and all the people who follow you!’ After that I will leave.” Then Moses, hot with anger, left Pharaoh.
9 The LORD had said to Moses, “Pharaoh will refuse to listen to you—so that my wonders may be multiplied in Egypt.” 10 Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country.
1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, 2 “This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year. 3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb [a] for his family, one for each household. 4 If any household is too small for a whole lamb, they must share one with their nearest neighbor, having taken into account the number of people there are. You are to determine the amount of lamb needed in accordance with what each person will eat. 5 The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. 6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. 9 Do not eat the meat raw or cooked in water, but roast it over the fire—head, legs and inner parts. 10 Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. 11 This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the LORD’s Passover.
12 “On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn—both men and animals—and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD. 13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are; and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.
So, basically, what God did is….
1. God made the Pharoah (violating his free will) not agree to anything Moses said, but why harden his heart if he’d say no otherwise? Obviously the Pharoah would have said yes but God just wanted to prove his power. God is saying that all Egyptians need to be punished, even the children and infants and such….
2. Again the Pharoah would have said yes to the request, but God made him say no.
3. Then he declares he will punish the sons of Egypt and not the people who are apparently doing bad things. Why is God punishing the children?
4. God again declares that this is all so that more people will believe in him, and again to do this he changed the Pharoah’s mind.
5. Despite what the thread starter said, he only gave the people of Israel a chance, not the people of Egypt. Also, why did he need that outside their door? Why couldn’t he just know? Why do the animals have to be so specific? What if a family doesn’t have the right animal? Why does he care how they eat?
6. Why is he punishing animals now too, in addition to the children? Why, again, does he need the blood to tell who’s who?
So God is killing these people, and he apparently never gave all of the people of Egypt a chance.. He apparently wasn’t able to tell who was who, and he FORCED the king of Egypt to deny the requests of the people of Israel, just to show his power, and just to kill some children…..if God exists, he’s a sick, stupid, and lying bastard who hates children.
Yes, this post sounded and was very hateful. I’m sorry, but I simply refuse to tolerate bullshit like this. It’s not just when “pro-life” Christians worship a God who has something against children, it’s when anyone worships him in the first place and trusts his judgement that something so obviously wrong is okay. Lot threw two of his daughters out to be raped to save one man from being raped, and he was considered righteous by God and saved from the destruction of Sodom. King David slept with an unmarried woman than committed murder, but he’s a Christian icon.
I know there is a lot of willful ignorance going on, but honestly, I have to wonder: What is wrong with these people? Am I missing something?
YOu know I would be able to tolerate them better if they would at least offer more support after the child was born. Being pro life should mean acting in the best interest of the child that you insisted had to be born. I constantly challenge them on that and not one of them can give a decent answer. If having an abortion is murder and a crime, raising a child in poverty with a mother that resents it or doesn’t want it, is equally criminal.
This is a little off-topic but in the nanoscopic chance there is a god of some sort out there, intelligent being to intelligent being.. why would we worship him/her? Why are some people obsessed with the master/slave relationship? In the impossible chance that the god of the bible is real, still why would we follow the bible when many of its lessons do not stand for logic, freedom, ethics, and good of the people. The god of the bible is selfish (which pretty much is the root of evil), why would people fall to their knees and serve it?
The responce I get from my dad when I ask these same questions is, “Son, you need to read the New Testament. The old doesn’t count any more since Jesus died for our sins.”
I usually respond with, “Then why all the hoopla over the Ten Commandments? Jesus never quoted them.”
Regardless, his response never bode well with me anyway. Jesus says plenty wrong in the NT as well.
Hi Everyone,
Ok – I must admit, I didn’t quite expect the results I got from one of my search queries..
But I did feel that I have to respond to these weird and quite disturbing comments some of you have made.. Yes, as someone mentioned about their dad saying they must read the New Testament…. go for it :) I promise you, you will be more than pleasantly surprised.
Remember, Moses was under the law.. and many people sadly still today believe that they have to “do so much” to be accepted into the beautiful gates of heaven or be accepted by God.. this is Satan’s lie.. we are not under the law anymore. Why do you think God sent Jesus to die for our sins? Have you never ever felt Gods presence or “small beautiful voice?” Common, if you haven’t ever hear His voice or asked Him to speak to you… you are missing out big time.. and don’t worry.. you will know when He speaks to you. Nothing to be scared about. “my flock will know my voice”.
Please read the passages before what happened to the first born children.. and in correct context.. I don’t think you have an idea of what our mighty God had to put up with anyway … before He sent His Son… He gave humans free choice, that is how fair He is.
Did someone give you 1 passage and say “What type of a God does this…maybe???” Why don’t these people ever point fingers at the true liar, who causes destruction and heartache on this earth??
Do you think God do awe full things? No Really? Why don’t you guys ever mention Satan? I must admit, I find it really strange that all the Atheists I’ve ever spoken to – blame God for everything.. if they’re parents die.. if their life falls apart ….. but strangely they have never questioned Psalm 91..
Jdipunk, This is a lie from the devil which has no truth whatsoever. You tell me: What type of God would send His only Son to die for us?? No other religion teaches the love of their “God”. By the way: Christianity isn’t a religion.. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit is alive .. not a religion or a statue or a liar. And why would Jesus die for us willingly.. have you any idea how much He loves you?
The old testament does count.. of course it does, what happened in history is important and an important lesson for us.. but the fundamental truth is what it is trying to teach you by Jesus’ crucification and how much this means.
Do you know that the Buddha said when asked just before he died if he ever found the truth?????? He said.. I am still searching.. Funny how few people know this.. but how many people follows this belief without consideration.
Altz.. that is why God sent His son.. all you need to do is to believe that this is possible.. How easy is that.. with all the new-age mumbo jumbo about trust yourself and your supernatural abilities… how easy is that to believe??
This is one of the biggest occultic movements of this century and before (Napoleon Hill) and all the hundreds of self-help John Keo and the whole lot.. trust yourself.. only your subconscious..and you have the power. It wheels you in slowly and before you know it.. you are hooked. Slowly they tell you that it is all in the Bible (which it is) but they neglect to mention that it is only through Jesus that you have access to all these abilities. They convince you that it is because of your own ability.
Tell me.. do you really think – you are more intelligent that God (who created you?) Do you really think that this is really it.. this is as good as it gets? I luckily know that it is not.
I will give you a testimony.. it was on of the hardest falls I have had a a long time, but luckily I had a gracious loving, God who helped me up… again.. and who never turned his back on me.. ever.
There is only one LOVING God you can trust and depend on and His name is Jesus, Holy Spirit with whom nothing is impossible. He will lift you up when everything seems impossible, He is peace, He is love.
Do you really want to tell me you do not believe that God is alive?? This fascinates me.. do you believe all this beauty and magic and wonder happened from …. a big bang????? Have you ever been in nature – have you ever felt Gods’ presence.. you must’ve.. but maybe you didn’t want to.
Gods love is true and real and very very powerful and the only thing people are searching for (the people who haven’t accepted Him yet) Have you seen a friend, yourself searching searching… He Is the true answer. I promise. The day you ask the holy spirit to live in you and you accept Jesus as your Saviour, you will never want Him to leave ever again.
Have you ever watched a Christian program – have you ever watched people in church crying? This is not because they are in agony… it is because it is the most peaceful beautiful experience you can ever imagine, when you accept Jesus into your life and ultimately when you feel His love.
Don’t just take selected verses out of the old testament… at least read what happened before all of that.. all in context. :) you will be pleasantly surprized… once again. And speak to people who know the bible..go to 2 or 3 or 5 different priests or pastors and make up your own mind. Don’t take anything on face value. Be as wise as a “serpant” and as humble as a “dove”. Be clever and knowledgeable.
So, to whoever you are.. not all Christians are Hypocrites -, we are all human and I’m sure you know that no one is perfect. Are all you non-believers Satanists? I doubt it, because he is a lier and a nothing. I wish only that you could feel the love of the Holy Spirit and Gods’ mighty grace. It is by far the best experience ever!
I promise you.. if you accept and believe that Jesus is your saviour – you will never ever be the same again. Being close to God and our Saviour really is the ultimate experience. So.. I hope you find all your questions and I cannot believe you haven’t heard His voice, yet. But if you need some more info about our true God and his mercy and love and kindness… these are my 2 favoriter pastors you can check out who teaches the grace message – presbitarian: and we are all hip beautiful people.. no “stereo type” nerds. :)
Pastor Prince: From:
https://www.destined2reign.com/onlinestore/default.aspx
https://www.destined2reign.com/onlinestore/pc-1152-4-grace-favour-seminar-live-hillsong-australia-cd-album.aspx
https://www.destined2reign.com/onlinestore/c-6-music.aspx?IsTop=1
Pastor Chris :
http://www.christembassy.org/
http://www.christembassymedia.org/testserver/rorwebsite/images/june_ror_mag.pdf
And download the Rapsodys – awesome stuff filled with the true word.. grace, love, success, achievement, abundance and to much more.
I hope you have a wonderful day and live – take care!
Kind Regards,
Largo
You all have another thing coming to you! I can’t believe that you are actually accusing God of being cruel! Some nerve! Not everything in the bible can be taken litterally, considering that it was written hundreds of years ago when people spoke much differently. Going to war with God is an unforgivable sin and when our Savior returns, you will be cast out for doing so! You should read the entire bible before making such judgements! I hope you seek repentance.
Fuck you. You have such a nerve to come to this topic when you are clearly just causing drama you over religious bitch.
HA. When and if your zombie messiah comes I will personally kiss his ass.
I feel so happy I can now point out that your entire argument is flawed as it relies on attempting to cause fear.
I’m also happy to let you know that your God can kiss my ass, as any other child-murderer can: pretending he exists a moment, of course.
Next time you come into someone’s blogs, a guide to politeness and a reality check should be in hand.
Rotten mother of Zombie jesus……. (yes this is intended as a shocker)
I can (barely) support preachers going on and on and on about how god is mercifull and love and all that. But hey, guess what ? I did talk to a pastor, bottom of the line is that your god couldn’t care less about us as long as we worship him. No matter how much good you do in your life, if you don’t worship god you’re going to hell. I don’t exactly call that loving or understanding. From my point of view it’s petty.
But what I really can’t stand is the peoples going “you’re going to hell for your blasphemy, you will be cast down, yada yada yada.
What century do we live in again ? From peoples like them you’d think it was still the dark age and the inquisition was still in place. So much hatred from anyone worshipping a so called god of love, oh the sweet irony.
@Largo
Your grasp of the English language is atrocious thus your argument = negated! (unless your underlying point was to demonstrate the link between faith and ignorance)
@Marie
Oh jeez, look at that, I’ve been an atheist all my life but your one comment, threatening me with spooky damnation and other hocus-pocus has TOTALLY changed my mind!! Way to go! You must be some sort of brilliant internet missionary! Now that I’m on your side, I can starting picking and choosing what’s to be taken literally from the Bible and what’s allegory? What if God is just a metaphor? Now I’m totally confused. Oh, and what about this graph – http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/who-killed-more-in-bible.png – should I take that literally??
“You all have another thing coming to you!”
Marie, if there truly is a god hiding in the darkness, just waiting for me to die so it can do harm to me, there isn’t much I can do about it. I guess because it is bigger and stronger, it can just do whatever it wants to anyone.. but it does not have the ethical high ground.
“Going to war with God is an unforgivable sin”
Marie, who said go to war? If there is a god, I would have no problem. If he wanted to live in America and follow the laws, that would be great. He can go through the process to become an American citizen. He can earn his driver’s license, get a job, and even move into the house down the street that is for sale. Maybe he and I can discuss the weather and I can invite him over for a BBQ.
Read through this slowly and carefully or you will miss many important points of my thoughts.
-I would first like to address the thinning line, between exhuming logical factors and biased bigotry, that is easily crossed when it comes to debating people’s lives.
Everyone’s ideals greatly differ from each others, so it is no surprise that when something is said temperatures mainly rise and create heated, biased, and illogical arguments.
I must point out that, though these blogs may exude your personal opinions, that does not make them right in all the eyes of the world (nor those who respond to them accordingly). What people fail to see, in this day and time, is each other. They hide behind devices such as computers, phones, and other concealing items. Therefor people are given a freedom like no other – anonymity. With this they can say, do whatever they please on the internet (of course to an extent, the world is nothing but boundaries). They forget what it is like to be someone else, to be in their shoes (if they ever knew such a clarity).
My point being, it is logical to suggest the fact that bringing light to our feelings does not always solve problems, but instead can create them. Bring to case the laws affecting same-sex marriages. This creates quite a controversy. Those who feel that they should not be allowed to marry have expressed their opinions, but they have also put into the action of dictating how someone else is to live. To me, no man should decide what another man does (or woman, child,) without their consent to the matter. I feel that things would turn a near 360 degrees if people were to feel the lives of others and how they are affected everyday by other people. True amazement would be attained and the world would be an amazing place today (as I believe it should be, but we humans as a whole are slow to learn and repeat our mistakes).
If someone were to say to me, “I believe that killing an unborn fetus is morally wrong”, then I would say to you, “Now I know your stance, and that you would never commit such a crime against yourself, but your words are your own, as are your actions. Not everyone feels things the way you do, and so you cannot by any ‘moral’ standards apply them to anyone else unless you forfeit your right to make your own decisions based on what you feel is right. It would be the epitome of hypocrisy”.
Does everyone not feel the same way, that you would be uncooperative to relinquish your personal freedoms? If you do so, but do not share the fact that this also applies to everyone else you meet… Then you are a hypocrite. As I see it in my vision. You see, my eyes see everything, the ‘good’ and the ‘bad’. There is no black and white, there is only gray. Everything blends together to create a tangled web of complexities so much so that the lessons we have come to learn are discarded or left behind. We forget the crimes that have been committed against man, or care not to recognize them at all. It is not difficult to see the more blatant ones such as those that occurred during the Holocaust, or the Cold War, but there are others. Think a moment, think of what these may be. Do not, however, forget to see it in full light and from all angles.
Now to address the comments above!
First off is Yvette.
I’m not quite certain of this, could you explain further: “This refers to Christians who follow the Bible, not their own laws. They don’t count for this post.”
“The Bible talks about how God himself murdered babies and possibly many fetuses. When he killed the children in Egypt, he murdered infinitely innocent children. When he It’s also a commonly held belief among Christians that when babies or fetuses die, they go to Heaven.”
-Oh yes, it seems God did kill hundreds, thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of children! In the old testament the world was full of sin and the only way that humans seem to learn is through the pain of sorrow of loss. Do you not agree? We show who we truly are when something devastating comes to show, we reveal ourselves to…us and those close. In the eyes of man this can be seen as a crime against the innocent. To God, you would have to think that it meant nothing more than returning his children to him which is so speculated in his book that the innocent shall forever live in the kingdom of God. So if you believe in all of this, how can God be labeled as murder except through narrowed eyes of man? All we can do is try to assume the true meaning of everything in the bible, but from it we should discern that only God knows all truths and that we are to only discover a handful of them whilst we are here on earth.
“So why is it okay for God to kill thousands of babies, but one woman can’t make the same choice?”
-I’ve address this in my previous paragraphs. Carefully re-read them if necessary to fully comprehend my thoughts on the matter.
“Not only that, considering that according to most if not all Christians, those fetuses would be going straight to heaven once aborted (or they would just be reincarnated), there is not only no good reason to oppose abortion, it’s also cruel.
Why would Christians want to deny someone the chance to go straight to Heaven?”
- Then what should be the meaning of life? Since we are put here in order to prove ourselves worth to reside in the kingdom of heaven with God. That is the purpose of birth and life as it is believe. It is for a woman to decide what she should do with the unborn child, but it shall be God who decides what to do with the woman and what she shall do with herself. (don’t read in between any lines).
-Then what is the meaning of life according to Christians? I believe that the meaning of life resides in living life. That we are here to prove ourselves to God and that what we make of ourselves determines what shall follow these lives. It is for a woman to decide what she should do with the unborn child, but is shall be God who decides what do to with the woman and and what she shall do with herself.
Remember, in God’s eyes it is only he who should decide who shall live and who shall ‘die’, and those who take it upon themselves have sinned by the bible’s word. Though with the sacrifice of his son they may be saved. Does that make people angry, that killers can be forgiven and go to heaven just as those who he has killed? I bet it does, since it seems like injustice to us. That is the point, it is our justice, not Gods.
“1. God made the Pharoah (violating his free will) not agree to anything Moses said, but why harden his heart if he’d say no otherwise?”
-So, you are saying that God controlled his mind and made him think that way? Well, I suppose he did in a way, but that is not a violation of free will. Many people manipulate others in this society, is this a violation of free will as well? Should people be imprisoned for indirectly affecting the thoughts of others? If anyone is to do so I would believe God be the only one.
“Obviously the Pharoah would have said yes but God just wanted to prove his power. God is saying that all Egyptians need to be punished, even the children and infants and such….”
-Perhaps, but who knows. Were you there to determine this, were you in his thoughts as he made his choices? Your choice of language is quite…beguiling Ms. Yvette. Why have you chosen to address this issue in such a tone? I find it hard to accept what you say when it is only filled with bias and immature analysis. Do not find offense in this, I only wonder. There are others I wonder about too, mostly all who have posted here.
“3. Then he declares he will punish the sons of Egypt and not the people who are apparently doing bad things. Why is God punishing the children?”
- You yourself stated: “Not only that, considering that according to most if not all Christians, those fetuses would be going straight to heaven once aborted (or they would just be reincarnated), there is not only no good reason to oppose abortion, it’s also cruel”, so why is it that you feel this is a punishment upon the children if you believe that the christian believe that these innocents will go to heaven? Saying of course, if this ever even occurred.
“4. God again declares that this is all so that more people will believe in him, and again to do this he changed the Pharoah’s mind.”
- Looks like he showed them.
“5. Despite what the thread starter said, he only gave the people of Israel a chance, not the people of Egypt. Also, why did he need that outside their door? Why couldn’t he just know? Why do the animals have to be so specific? What if a family doesn’t have the right animal? Why does he care how they eat?”
-Remember, this book is written by man as they are told by God what to write, and it is their interpretations that come through in it. Traditions, etc… of the time all affect the writing of the bible. If it were written today it wouldn’t be any different besides the events that occurred and the language used.
“6. Why is he punishing animals now too, in addition to the children? Why, again, does he need the blood to tell who’s who?”
- In that day and time animals were regarded in a differently light. Today we have a developed sense of morality and interaction with our animals (most of us) and so these things have changed over the decades. Of course animals feel pain, that is apparent. But do they have souls, do they think like we do? Our own science that we have developed can show us that. Today though we feel it is important to treat the animals with respect, which they so did in the past in their own ways. I don’t have the time to cite sources from the bible to show anyone this, it is of course possible to find them for oneself if you look pass the words and look for the true meaning.
“So God is killing these people, and he apparently never gave all of the people of Egypt a chance.. He apparently wasn’t able to tell who was who, and he FORCED the king of Egypt to deny the requests of the people of Israel, just to show his power, and just to kill some children…..if God exists, he’s a sick, stupid, and lying bastard who hates children.”
- If that isn’t the most arrogant filled… Oh, never mind, I will not attend that thought as of now. Read my previous paragraphs carefully please.
Now on to Renee’s comments.
“You know I would be able to tolerate them better if they would at least offer more support after the child was born.”
- Short and sweet. Now…Are we discriminating against Christians? What about all the other non-Christians who care nothing for children? What about them, are you going to forgive them just because they don’t believe in God?
“Being pro life should mean acting in the best interest of the child that you insisted had to be born. I constantly challenge them on that and not one of them can give a decent answer. If having an abortion is murder and a crime, raising a child in poverty with a mother that resents it or doesn’t want it, is equally criminal.”
-In the respect of Christian beliefs, Pro-life does not mean that. It means giving the child a chance to experience life and make decisions that will affect their place hereafter. Many people are clouded by their emotions on this matter, and it’s rather a sad fact since it negates all of the important points made by either side.
It is not, however you think of it, a typically ‘good thing’ to bring children into a world of war, hate, poverty and discrimination. Should all woman abstain from having children then? If we are only to face these things and wallow in pity the rest of our lives then why continue to exist I ask you.
Now, Alz.
“This is a little off-topic but in the nanoscopic chance there is a god of some sort out there, intelligent being to intelligent being.. why would we worship him/her?”
- Why? Well I suppose that is for you to find out yourself. If you worship God there must be a reason for your beliefs. Wouldn’t there? Otherwise you wouldn’t worship him at all.
“Why are some people obsessed with the master/slave relationship?”
- We are slaves to nothing but our own inadequacies. Servitude is naught but a respect for ones ‘master’ in some form or another. Many children are servants to their parents if you think about it, why would our relationship with God be any different?
“In the impossible chance that the god of the bible is real, still why would we follow the bible when many of its lessons do not stand for logic, freedom, ethics, and good of the people. The god of the bible is selfish (which pretty much is the root of evil), why would people fall to their knees and serve it?”
- Again, it is hard for us as Humans to discern God’s position, no matter how hard we try to understand it. Blatant bigotry does not get you very far, on the contrary it only seeks to disable one’s mind and the thoughts that provide them with truth.
Now on to Jedi Punk,
“The response I get from my dad when I ask these same questions is, “Son, you need to read the New Testament. The old doesn’t count any more since Jesus died for our sins.”
-I wouldn’t listen to your Dad if I were you… (my personal opinion). All parts of the bible are equally important in understanding the era and the religion of Christianity.
“I usually respond with, “Then why all the hoopla over the Ten Commandments? Jesus never quoted them.”
-Why would Jesus have to quote them? They were already said. That would be redundant now wouldn’t it?
“Regardless, his response never bode well with me anyway. Jesus says plenty wrong in the NT as well.”
- I find it difficult to understand your point. How are you to say what he said was indeed wrong in the eyes of who only counts in the Christian religion?
On to Largo’s points….Okay that’s just too much for me to read right now. Maybe later?
Let’s see.
Yvette again, along with Maria.
“I feel so happy I can now point out that your entire argument is flawed as it relies on attempting to cause fear.”
- I’d have to agree with that.
“I’m also happy to let you know that your God can kiss my ass, as any other child-murderer can: pretending he exists a moment, of course.”
- I don’t need to repeat myself now do I?
“Next time you come into someone’s blogs, a guide to politeness and a reality check should be in hand.”
-If only it is to be seen in the blog itself. Equality is everything you know.
Berior:
“I can (barely) support preachers going on and on and on about how god is mercifull and love and all that.”
- God is merciful, yet he is merciless. He is loving, yet he hates. What do you expect of an all knowing heavenly being? A goodly, cuddly puppy? Sorry that was a bit out of line.
“But hey, guess what ? I did talk to a pastor, bottom of the line is that your god couldn’t care less about us as long as we worship him. No matter how much good you do in your life, if you don’t worship god you’re going to hell. I don’t exactly call that loving or understanding. From my point of view it’s petty.”
-I suppose most of that is true. Though you’re demeanor in recognizing it all could be better. God exists as an omnipotent being who desires his creations to love and worship him for what he has given them, he shows love to those who follow him and sends the non-believers to hell (punishment). And of course from your view it might seem petty, but you are not all knowing and cannot being to comprehend the reasons behind all of this, nor dictate what is truly loving and understanding. Am I right? I hope so.
“But what I really can’t stand is the peoples going “you’re going to hell for your blasphemy, you will be cast down, yada yada yada.”
- Yeah, I can’t stand them either. They are self-imposed Christians, believing they are given the right to judge their fellow man when they are not.
“What century do we live in again ? From peoples like them you’d think it was still the dark age and the inquisition was still in place. So much hatred from anyone worshiping a so called god of love, oh the sweet irony.”
- I don’t know which century we live in again, all of them? I hope that you are not basing your belief of all Christians from a handful of zealots. That would not be ‘this century’s thing’. We don’t have the right to judge our fellow man, that is left only to God.
Jason:
“@Largo
Your grasp of the English language is atrocious thus your argument = negated! (unless your underlying point was to demonstrate the link between faith and ignorance)”
- Of course, communicating our thoughts to other people is very tricky. You would think a developed society of ours would come to realize that not everyone expresses themselves as they do. Selfish of us isn’t it, to just throw someone’s ideals out because we feel they didn’t communicate them well enough to us? That seems to be ignorance as I see it.
“@Marie
Oh jeez, look at that, I’ve been an atheist all my life but your one comment, threatening me with spooky damnation and other hocus-pocus has TOTALLY changed my mind!! Way to go! You must be some sort of brilliant internet missionary!”
- Sarcasm duly noted.
“Now that I’m on your side, I can starting picking and choosing what’s to be taken literally from the Bible and what’s allegory? What if God is just a metaphor? Now I’m totally confused.”
- Who said there is a side? There is never a side. And you cannot take the bible literally, since it was written by the hand of men. You have to try and look through the words to find the truth behind the lessons, messages etc… A metaphor? If you want to think of him like that, then do so.
“Oh, and what about this graph – http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/who-killed-more-in-bible.png – should I take that literally??”
- Please make sure to re-read what I stated above…and also far above.
Alz, again.
” ‘You all have another thing coming to you!’
Marie, if there truly is a god hiding in the darkness, just waiting for me to die so it can do harm to me, there isn’t much I can do about it. I guess because it is bigger and stronger, it can just do whatever it wants to anyone.. but it does not have the ethical high ground. ”
- Alz, do you really think that? Well I suppose we are all entitled to our opinions, but in note I disagree with that.
” ‘Going to war with God is an unforgivable sin’
Marie, who said go to war? If there is a god, I would have no problem. If he wanted to live in America and follow the laws, that would be great. He can go through the process to become an American citizen. He can earn his driver’s license, get a job, and even move into the house down the street that is for sale. Maybe he and I can discuss the weather and I can invite him over for a BBQ.”
- Oh, how I love the sarcasm.
[Sorry for the book, I felt it important to point everything out. I also apologize for letting any of my own biased into this comment, it was not purposely, if you find such. I hope you enjoyed my little big comment, enjoy your day!]
Crazywired, I strongly believe in the absolute equality of anything intelligent. My example was to suggest that if any beings such as gods do exist, that they should not have greater rights and privileges.
I however, do not believe in anything supernatural so what truly matters to me is the equal rights and equality of all people.
wow. crazywired needs to lay off the caffeine. organized religion sucks. that was far more concise.
@ Music
Indeed…he commented 5 or so times complaining that I hadn’t approved him yet and was “censoring” him…XD
there’s never a need to censor crazy, irrational religious speak. it’s much more fun to read it while laughing (do not drink soda in the process, as it gets messy).
Organized bashing sucks too. Peeeeaaaccceee
“You can never trust anyone, because everyone only trusts themselves.”
There would be craploads of peace if certain religious groups didn’t attempt to force me to follow their religious line of thinking, or attempt to pass laws that limit my rights.
Usually I have respect for the arguments you make, even if I don’t agree with them, but this time I think the ‘willful ignorance’ you refer to is yours:
“The Bible talks about how God himself murdered babies and possibly many fetuses. When he killed the children in Egypt, he murdered infinitely innocent children. When he It’s also a commonly held belief among Christians that when babies or fetuses die, they go to Heaven.
So why is it okay for God to kill thousands of babies, but one woman can’t make the same choice?”
First off, — from the Christian viewpoint– God is the moral authority, so anything he does is just. You can’t accuse God of murder, it’s like accusing the Constitution of espousing unconstitutional ideas. If you’re going to accuse someone of being hypocritical, you have to show it from within their belief system. From the start, you’re determining what murder is by your own non-Christian standards.
“Not only that, considering that according to most if not all Christians, those fetuses would be going straight to heaven once aborted (or they would just be reincarnated), there is not only no good reason to oppose abortion, it’s also cruel.
Why would Christians want to deny someone the chance to go straight to Heaven?”
This is straight bullshit: murdered innocents go to heaven, so Christians shouldn’t fight against the murder of innocents. And what branch of Christianity believes in reincarnation? Never heard of one.
Alex, I approved your comment because I respect you, but your hostility and rudeness was not needed. If you’d like to edit it or try again, I’ll respond to it beyond this. I refuse to get into a flaming contest.
It has always puzzled me when someone makes a statement like this. Just what exactly makes God the moral authority? (assuming he even exists …) What makes him the moral authority as opposed to me, or you, or the mosquito I just swatted?
A lot of the times the arguments boil down to “just because” or “God is wise” type of answers. The former is just laughable reasoning. For the latter, I judge how wise someone is by what they do and what they say, not the other way around, and God (almost any god, actually) hardly acts in a way that I would consider anything even approaching wise.
Is there any other argument out there? Especially one that isn’t built on empty premises?
A fantastic article.
It would seem both atheist and christian fundementalists seem to have gotten their teeth into the argument.
There are a few logic points that i woudl like to make.
if, as a christian, you truly believed that murdered innocents go to heaven. And i mean believe in an evangelical ‘the bible is truth because it represents what we have been taught by God’ way that murdered innocents go to heaven, then what why would you attempt to stop the murder of innocents? it would seem that the murder of innocents should be actively encouraged, if your viepwoint is that murdered innocents go to heaven, because then more people get into heaven, which is infinitely times better than Earth, or so i have been told.
therefore, how is it bullsh*t reasoning to suggest that Christians shouldn;t fight to inhibit the mumrder of innocents?
Secondly, it is very difficult to counter any argument that flows along the lines of “God is all-knowing, or God’s plan works in mysterious ways” because it does not work on logic. it works on what piece of ‘truth’ that certain people believe is true, and therefore, they do not need to listen to any arguments that suggest otherwise, because their ‘truth’ has heard it all before. From a lofty philosophical perspective, using the verification principle, which suggests that any concept that does not accept falsification, such as the concept of God being ‘all-knowing and working in mysterious ways’, can not be verified either, because to verify somehihtng, you must show that falsification of it is immpossible. likewise, to falsify a concept, you must show that verification of the concept is impossible.
Therefore, if an argument refuses to accept any falsification, nor can it truly verify itself. Hence, any argument that runs along the lines of just because and God is all knowing’ isn;t so much laughable, as non-verifiable, meaning that it does not help any debate by bringing it up.
an interesting thread though nonetheless.
I welcome any critique of my argument here, though i would prefer it if it was in English, because as Crazywired said, although the means of communication are diverse, and thus one means cannot be criticized against another, i finnd it easier to understand an argument if it is made in my native tongue, with at least passable grammar
Coops
Hi. My name’s Jill. I know that religion and beliefs are very personal to people, and I also know that what I say in a comment is not going to be good enough to support or influence you or other readers. I just wanted to let you know that my email is bickleyja@titan.sfasu.edu. If you do want to ask me any questions, or just talk as adults about your beliefs about God, then I would like to talk with you.
Yes I believe in Jesus Christ, and God is my Father in heaven, and I know that you do not believe in him. I think it’s important for someone who believes in God to also not be hypocritical of their beliefs, so in no way will I talk down to you, or be rude about any of your, or others beliefs. I just thought if you wanted to talk, or had questions, that this would be more mature, and probably more appealing to you.
Thanks for reading this!
Quick question… so Are you ok with “Pro-choice” Christians? Are you fine with “Pro-life” Atheists, Buddists or muslims?
test
Now that that’s fixed:
@yvette
From your original post: So why is it okay for God to kill thousands of babies, but one woman can’t make the same choice?
So, you are clearly saying that women who abort are KILLING BABIES just like god.
From a follow up: I’m also happy to let you know that your God can kiss my ass, as any other child-murderer can: pretending he exists a moment, of course.
So, women who abort can kiss your ass as they are child murderers based on your original comment.
From the same follow up: Next time you come into someone’s blogs, a guide to politeness and a reality check should be in hand.
So, this is obviously an exclusive club where only the members can be rude and crude!
Finally, how do you address atheists (me) who believe abortion is wrong NOT because we fear some silly god concept but because we believe it is MURDER!
I want complete seperation of church and state.
Some pro-lifers have relgious reasons behind their desire to have a nation in which abortion is illegal.
Don’t worry fellow pro-choice supporters; abortion will never be illegal.
Could you really justify forcing a mother ,who was most liekly already going through a living hell,to raise a child in poverty crime and down right horiffic conditions because someone ,who isnt even going to help the mother after the child is born, says thats the right thing to do?No you cant.A fetus,a piece of skin that cant walk,talk,think,see,hear,feel,or even BREATH is not bassicly “alive”.It might as well be a little corpse.So why is it murder to just be able to get rid fo ti ans save it from a living night-mare when it was born.I have yet to find a good pro life argument that doesnt go:
“YOU ARE A MONSTER A FETUS IS A LIVING BEING AND GETTING AN ABORTION IS COLD BLOODED MURDER AND THE GIRL WHO HAD THE BABY IS A WHORE AND THE GIRL WHO GOT RAPED SHOULD DEAL WITH IT AND BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH”
And a big FU to all the pro murderers. I may not be christian, but I am against the murder of innocent babys!
Pro-lifers (the religious ones) are often ignorant of the nature of life, that is, suffering, and blindly believe in pumping out more babies even though (assuming lets say christianity was correct) it would be better for babies not to be born so that they can’t deal with life’s pain and so that they don’t risk burning in eternal hell. Heaven or whatever is not a greater joy than not existing, because by not existing you don’t know anything is missing and know no pain.